Curse

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 15, 2005, 05:00 AM // 05:00

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Originally Posted by Racthoh

Smiting monk... still working on that one. Rarely see them, but I know not to attack them, duh.

let me take this one... if the monk uses little to no healing all it would take is a few hexes and life stealers and the problem should be solved.. alone i dont think anything could take out anything in a hurry the secondary proffesion really helps out as you stated

Malchiel · Jul 15, 2005, 05:02 AM // 05:02

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Originally Posted by BigTru

Most people will claim how easy it is to counter a warrior (blind, stances, etc, etc.), but most fail to see how easily these counters our countered. Infact, almost every counter there is for warrior, a warrior has a way to fix it.

I know I don't dish out the "uber" damage, but that's simply because I feel it's more important not for a PvP warrior to concentrate on doing high damage, but decent damage while countering anything that can be thrown at him, or helping the team by knocking people down =D

I don't feel the need to explain why I think Warriors are good in both PvP and PvE - I know what I'm capable of and I know that not everyone can play a Warrior (well). I don't think other classes take any more or any less skill (except mabey Mesmer and Monk).

How do you counter blindness? How do you counter cripple? or Weakness?

Thing, is all these condition don't kill a caster effectiveness, but to a warrior they're very debilitating. You pretty much has to resort to a secondary profession.

However other classes don't usually have the need to resort to secondary profession to counter other builds.

You might say, well, that's why they allow 2 professions, right? True, but since warriors needs to counter both condition, hexes, shadow damage, holy damage... there's no way that simply picking a secondary profession can easily cover all those.

Let's see an ele with a single spell (armor of earth) is strong vs. physical and elemental. They can heal themselves relatively well. They're not really affected by MOST condition, whereas a warrior are affected by ALL condition, except daze.

A necro's only weakness is probably holy damage. They've a pretty decent armor in case you didn't know. My necro has 80 armor combined. 10 from equipments, the rest from armor.

A ranger is weak only vs. hexes. No real way of countering them.

A mezmer is weak vs. condition.

As you can see most of these other classes have only one weakness, where the warrior has like 4 weakneses.

Monk is of course pretty tough, and not easy to bring down single handedly.

BigTru · Jul 15, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

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They do NOT deal nearly as much damage as the other classes.

My Warrior can deal as much damage as any other class (save Elementalists). Mabey you just weren't any good with Warrior when you tried it?

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They do NOT shut down as well as the mezmers, even if you have a big honking hammer.

They don't shut down, but they can stop the foe from doing anything (which includes running/using signet/casting spells. Similiar, but not the same thing). Besides, we do more damage when we are knocking down than a mesmer that is shutting down.

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They do NOT heal others

Didn't know I had to heal others.

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They do NOT kill a monk healing ability, the way the necros do. 90% less healing anyone?

I do when I knock them down and kill them.

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May be that particular caster is actually an anti caster? Or perhaps the caster wasn't a very good one to begin with?

And mabey you are playing with crappy warriors?

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There's no way a warrior can bring down an ilussionist. Imaginery burdens and lotsa hex. Coupled with distortion, you might as well be hitting thin air.

There are plenty of ways to remove hexes. Furthermore, Distortion (which lasts for 5 seconds) can be countered by "Warrior's Cunning".

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A warrior can't take down an earth ele.

Not exactly my stregnth, but I've done it before. If your telling me you are playing a uber class that can take down anything that is specificaly designed to counter your build, you are a horrible liar.

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An air ele will blind and kill the warrior first before he can even lay a finger on him.

I can remove the blind, but mabey you should see above? Besides, I thought nobody attacked Warriors first?

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A warrior can beat a smiting monk to death and manage to only get himself killed.

Fair enough, but mabey you should see what I said about Earth Eles?

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A warrior don't have the needed damage to really kill a monk.

The funny thing is, I do. I can easily kill a monk by going through one round of knockdowns. If I specialize in damage, I can kill them quite eassily, too.

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A ranger will pin him down and the poor warriors will start sprouting feathers and gushing poison.

Don't make me laugh. Conditions are easily removed.

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The necro will think a warrior is food. All those shadow damage and dots? The warrior might as well have walked into the fight naked.

Meh... Most people in the tombs are specificaly designed to take down casters, anyways.

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Originally Posted by Malchiel

How do you counter blindness? How do you counter cripple? or Weakness?

Purge Condition, Antidote Signet, Plague Sending, etc. Really, conditions are ridiculously easy to remove. Almost every class has a way of removing them.

Skills You Should Know

Warrior: Swift Chop, Irresistable Blow, "I Will Survive", Griffon Sweep, Warrior's Cunning, Wild Blow

Monk: Contemplation of Purity, Purge Conditions, Purge Signet, Remove Hex, Convert Hexes, Mend Ailment, Mend Condition, Restore Condition, Smite Hex

Necromancer: Plague Sending, Plague Signet, Plague Touch

Anyways, I didn't make this thread so that everyone could rush in and give their flames to warriors and tell us about how much our profession sucks and how we're useless in PvP.

If you must, please create a thread about flaming Warriors instead of highjacking my thread. Thanks.

Malchiel · Jul 15, 2005, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara

let me take this one... if the monk uses little to no healing all it would take is a few hexes and life stealers and the problem should be solved.. alone i dont think anything could take out anything in a hurry the secondary proffesion really helps out as you stated

Yes that's the beef of my problem with warriors. They need 2ndary profession skills to keep them up to par with the other professions. Here's the thing, if you can counter cripple, you can't counter imaginery burden. If you can counter blind, you still can't counter wards. In another word, there're just too many things out there that can counter a warrior.

Whereas a warrior has few if any that can counter all these counter on itself.

If you need to rely on 2ndary profession skill to remain useful, why not play that profession as a primary.

Malchiel · Jul 15, 2005, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

My Warrior can deal as much damage as any other class (save Elementalists). Mabey you just weren't any good with Warrior when you tried it?

They don't shut down, but they can stop the foe from doing anything (which includes running/using signet/casting spells. Similiar, but not the same thing). Besides, we do more damage when we are knocking down than a mesmer that is shutting down.

Didn't know I had to heal others.

I do when I knock them down and kill them.

And mabey you are playing with crappy warriors?

Sorry I don't play anything crappily. Wanna go 1 on 1?

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There are plenty of ways to remove hexes. Furthermore, Distortion (which lasts for 5 seconds) can be countered by "Warrior's Cunning".

Duh! I supposed you didn't know that distortion is renewable every 5 seconds? Combined with spirit of failure, they can evade your attacks continously. And last I checked Warriors cunning lasts 10 seconds with 50 seconds cool down. Good luck!

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Not exactly my stregnth, but I've done it before. If your telling me you are playing a uber class that can take down anything that is specificaly designed to counter your build, you are a horrible liar.

I play a class that is hard to counter, not a class that's easy to counter. A warrior though has far too many weakness, and they're farrrrr.... farrrr.... to easily countered. There's a difference. Sure my class has a counter, but it's rare.

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I can remove the blind, but mabey you should see above? Besides, I thought nobody attacked Warriors first?

No they don't need to attack the warrior first to blind you. In fact I'm not talking about killing you as much as making you useless.

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Fair enough, but mabey you should see what I said about Earth Eles?

The funny thing is, I do. I can easily kill a monk by going through one round of knockdowns. If I specialize in damage, I can kill them quite eassily, too.

Right... And what kind of monk were you fighting? If he puts on protective spirit (which's very spammable) All your L33t damage pretty much amounts to uh... crap.

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Don't make me laugh. Conditions are easily removed.

And easily put back on. In fact conditions are more easily put back on than you can remove them.

And even if you can remove that condition, it means that you're using your secondary class to save your butt. That means your secondary class isn't to deal damage, but to save your butt. And we all know about warriors who never gets attacked and attempts to save his own butt.

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Meh... Most people in the tombs are specificaly designed to take down casters, anyways.

And why'd you think that? Hint: It's definitely not because they're stupid.

To counter warrior all you need to bring is a single ward vs. melee. That's it. Or perhaps a trapper ranger. You don't need to bring many counter vs. a warrior. To counter 6 air eles that can simultenously hit you for 600 damage? That's something else.

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Anyways, I didn't make this thread so that everyone could rush in and give their flames to warriors and tell us about how much our profession sucks and how we're useless in PvP.

If you must, please create a thread about flaming Warriors instead of highjacking my thread. Thanks.

Wake up and smell the truth. I love my war. I spent like 180 plats on him alone, which's more than any of my other character. He's got the uberest axe I can afford, +13% >50 +19% <50. With +26 HP grip, and all the superiors absorp, vigor, you name it.

I certainly don't hate my warrior. In fact, it's because I love my warrior that I want the devs to make it more competitive in PvP.

Lord Malikai · Jul 15, 2005, 05:22 AM // 05:22

In my experiences so far, it's all come down to the situation I find myself in a fight. There have been times where I just didn't bring remove conditions and spent the entire fight blind/weak/crippled. There have been times I have bought remove conditions and not had any cast on me, effectively making me waste skill slots. There have been times I have gone complete damage nut and not been conditioned at all and rampaged through my enemies.

The same goes for my casters. There have been times I did not bring evasion or anti-knockdown and spent the entire fight laying on my face eating dirt. Or playing a smiting monk, I didn't bring remove hex and bit the dust from 1 single hex.

The thing about GW is that you cannot win them all. The reason why these posts come up is because this game is so well balanced. It is impossible to protect yourself from all angles, you will always have a weakness. You could go a week straight and lose every battle due to different situations. You can then turn around and win for a week straight due to different situations.

In GvG, You can be a jack of all trades and be open to a focused guild that does one thing really well. Or you can be the master of one, and be taken down by a guild who has the counter to you. That's what makes this game great!

BigTru · Jul 15, 2005, 05:23 AM // 05:23

I'm not goign to argue with you. Mabey you missed the last part of my message?

Racthoh · Jul 15, 2005, 05:26 AM // 05:26

A w/mo 'tank' that uses just mending is a fool. Bring it condition removals, and attacks that can't be blocked or evaded. Wards? Attack something else. Unless the group is actually smart enough to stay within the ward. In which case they deserve to win. Or bring in attacks that can't be blocked or evaded. I know sword has a few, and I can only assume the other weapons do as well. Make them waste their skill slot by bringing in some tricks of your own. Everyone has the thought in their mind that warriors are meant to take down spellcasters, so bring in skills that can do that.

Warrior pride!

Van the Warrior · Jul 15, 2005, 05:31 AM // 05:31

i am THE warrior representative you can find me hangin out in Yak's Bend by the fire place and uh yeah in pvp i do damage and i cant be made "useless" all conditions i can heal so yeah dont knock warriors because not all of them are noobs some are smart

Malchiel · Jul 15, 2005, 05:37 AM // 05:37

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Originally Posted by Racthoh

Unless the group is actually smart enough to stay within the ward. In which case they deserve to win. Or bring in attacks that can't be blocked or evaded.

You asume your opponents are smart, you don't asume them stupid. You prepare against the worst, not the best. And the worst possible scenerio is of course any time you attack an opponent, he'll run around near or by the ward.

Attacks that can't be blocked or evaded, costs 5 energy each. With your energy pool I'm guessing you can chain 4 or 5 of them, tops. After that, your hit will turn to miss... miss... miss... miss again.

Ben Reed · Jul 15, 2005, 05:37 AM // 05:37

<3 PvP warriors.

We may not be much on our own, but with a good team behind us, we can rock with the best of 'em. Even if we're just a dedicated snare, or a caster jammer, or a distraction for a monk or a crucial support character, we're not totally gimped.

Malchiel · Jul 15, 2005, 05:38 AM // 05:38

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Originally Posted by Ben Reed

<3 PvP warriors.

We may not be much on our own, but with a good team behind us, we can rock with the best of 'em. Even if we're just a dedicated snare, or a caster jammer, or a distraction for a monk or a crucial support character, we're not totally gimped.

Of course not totally gimped =_= just sub-par.

Aracos79 · Jul 15, 2005, 05:40 AM // 05:40

My first, and to this point only, ascended character is a Warrior. Are warriors gimped in GW? Hell yeah. Are they as powerful as other classes? Hell no. Does that mean they're useless? Far from it. People say that only "dumb noobs" play warriors... if that's true, that's the main reason people perceive warriors as "bad". In my opinion, warrior is the MOST skill intensive class you can play. Why? Because you're gimped from the start. You have to pick your moments... choose your counters wisely... find that exact moment for that key knockdown/aftershock that can take out the other team's monk/mesmer/ele. You need to know when to hold, and know when to fold. I submit to you that an effective warrior is probably the smartest player on your team. Why? Because the world of the warrior is a VERY Darwinian world... only the strongest and smartest survive to accomplish anything.

WARRIORS 4 LIFE!!

Mandy Memory · Jul 15, 2005, 05:41 AM // 05:41

useless in pvp? im a warrior and i get most the kills on my team...

i guess 150+ is weak to you guys...but thats okay

warriors > other classes

Malchiel · Jul 15, 2005, 05:45 AM // 05:45

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Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

useless in pvp? im a warrior and i get most the kills on my team...

i guess 150+ is weak to you guys...but thats okay

warriors > other classes

It kinda is... really <_<

Let me just ask you this, how often can you pull that kind of damage? My lightning ele does about 73 damage a second. Can you keep up with that?

Oh I don't have energy problem. I can fight 2 hours straight and never run out of energy. Can you also keep up with that kind of high, sustainable damage as a warrior?

Of course fighting an air ele one on one is a suicide for a warrior. =_=

EinValentine · Jul 15, 2005, 06:59 AM // 06:59

One thing I've noticed playing with Warrior as a secondary to my Monk and Ranger is that the Warrior profession doesn't synergise as well as it might with others.

Any Caster class can easily complement any other caster class since anything one class does to enhance spell use or energy recovery will easily enhance the other Profession as well. An E/N for instance, can function easily as a Necromancer with the only substantial difference being that they can't apply runes to their Necromancer abilities. Even Energy Storage fills the same niche as the Necro ability Soul Reaping: energy management for spell casting.

Rangers are their own bag, but they still function at range and use Energy as their only fuel, which makes them a decent fit with a caster secondary should they choose to go outside their primary.

Warriors though are running in their own little world. They are the only profession designed from the ground up for melee combat and they even have an entire game mechanic that is unique to them: Adrenaline. No one else uses this, and very few abilities in any other profession affect it at all (Balthazar's Spirit being a notable exception). Not only that but they are substantially crippled when it comes to the fuel that runs all five of the other professions: Energy. I would suggest that what Warriors need to come into their own aren't major boosts to the primary, but the inclusion of additional professions that also make use of the Adrenaline mechanic and are designed to be melee classes. When you can make a Warrior/Martial Artist or a Warrior/Assasin then I think we might see more options for warriors really opening up.

Zeroo · Jul 15, 2005, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Warriors aint weak, they just need a above average team that knows what they are doing.

Racthoh · Jul 15, 2005, 09:21 AM // 09:21

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Originally Posted by Malchiel

You asume your opponents are smart, you don't asume them stupid. You prepare against the worst, not the best. And the worst possible scenerio is of course any time you attack an opponent, he'll run around near or by the ward.

Attacks that can't be blocked or evaded, costs 5 energy each. With your energy pool I'm guessing you can chain 4 or 5 of them, tops. After that, your hit will turn to miss... miss... miss... miss again.

Warrior's Cunning can handle the situation for 5 seconds with no points into it. I can then think of Pure Strike, Seeking Blade, and Wild Blow. Warrior's Cunning... followed by those 3 attacks, and then a Flourish... Suppose I Max strength or put it near max, the Flourish would refill the pool enough for those three attacks again.

May not kill whatever you're attacking, but force them to do a little healing on your foe.

I've dealt with many a monk and elementalist in my brief PvP days. Many have attempted to endure my blade and few have lived to tell the tale. /Over exaggerated

Celes Tial · Jul 15, 2005, 09:58 AM // 09:58

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Originally Posted by Moofoo Pork

Without a warrior(s) to take a load of damage, every1 else is dead. (Although some all *class* builds may find ways to survive)

^ thats my opinion

That only works in PvE because mobs are stupid enough to try killing the warrior first.

In PvP, the castes will blind, slow and hex a warrior, making him utterly useless while they kill the rest of the group.

Needing close range to do any damage is a huge disadvantage.

Celes Tial · Jul 15, 2005, 10:03 AM // 10:03

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Originally Posted by Van the Warrior

i am THE warrior representative you can find me hangin out in Yak's Bend by the fire place and uh yeah in pvp i do damage and i cant be made "useless" all conditions i can heal so yeah dont knock warriors because not all of them are noobs some are smart

Alright... and how do you remove hexes, and armor of earth + obsidian flesh?